Curse

Alleji · Oct 04, 2006, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

I will dare to say that being rank zero doesn't necessarily mean someone is a bad player. HOWEVER the overall assumption in HA is that an unranked player is a noob and usually treated like crap. In its current state....

Unranked players ARE noobs 90% of the time. They might be the good guys, but they have no concept of strategy, don't know the popular builds and don't kite warriors who are smashing their faces. Forgive me if I don't want to deal with that.

Quote:

~There is about 0 imagination in build design concerning HA. If someone joins a group wanting to try out a new skill not part of the cookie cutter builds that player is usually trashed and kicked from the team for being a noob.

I somewhat agree on this one - innovation is the only way to improve a build, but the skill in the cookie-cutter build is there for a reason in the first place: it works and it works well because the build has been polished by many players. If you thought of something new, 19 out of 20 times it's not going to work, that's why people might be against changing a build. Also, pugs don't invent builds. Top guilds do. And I find that those groups are usually more open to any changes.

Quote:

~Rank 0 players, which are the majority of Gwars players will find it difficult to party with higher ranking players when they just start, forcing them to PuG with other unranked players. The stress of getting into a decent party through a PuG, which is one of the few choices a R0 player has usually already promotes a sour atmosphere once the "outcasts" party together. After being thoroughly spanked by a ranked team dominating the hall or a cookie cutter build like ViMway or IWAY, bloodspike even 50% of the team will break. This makes GETTING ranked for a new starting player extremely hard and unfulfilling.

Been there, done that. See point 1.

Quote:

~As a rank0 player you will spend 90% of your time finding a team only to have it break after a game. Sometimes the fault will be thrown at someone in the party for making a mistake (oh my god we cant do that in HA) and the player is trashed then kicked.... only to spend another 20mins finding another group.

Not much you can do about this if one idiot thinks he can quit and get into a better group and 2 others follow him.

Quote:

~In HA you are expected to play perfectly while in a PuG of complete strangers on the first run. You had better synch perfectly because if you dont on round one 70% of the time the team will lack the patience for round 2.

You're not expected to play perfectly, you're expected to play adequately. More often than not it's people blaming someone else when they screw up to avoid being blamed.

Quote:

~These forcing of outcast PuGs and struggling R0 players make fame farming easy for subpar builds like VIMway and IWAY. Eventually people get so stress out dealing with the crappiness of HA they either quit or join the ViMway or IWAY teams to avoid the stresses of being an outcast. Wonder why we have so many ViMwayers or IWAYers? Joining a FoTM cookie cutter is sometimes the only way for a R0 player to find a group quickly.

And here's the answer to all your whining: Join a PvP guild. There are plenty that are just starting out and spamming r3+/200k faction. So you don't need to be ranked to join one.

Quote:

~You need to win over 200+ games to actually rank, which means dealing with the bullcrap for a LOOOONNNGGGGG time or cheesing fame off one of the popular builds. Yay welcome to team VIM, now shutup and spam traps you noob.

Actually, you only need to win 14 in a row <.<

And don't think that once you get your deer, things are magically going to be different. No. You'll be playing with people who VIM'ed their way to r3 and thought "Hey, I can join l33tpwn4g3 groups now that play something other than W/R and R/W. Let's try monking!" Needless to say, the results aren't pretty. Organized unranked pugs (different from "nubway" and "grab 8 & go") are often better than r3+ because all those are made of people who C-spaced their rank and learned nothing.

Quote:

IN SHORT:
I can't find a PvP guild and all I can do is whine because I suck too much.

Completely with you on that one.

My point is, if you didn't catch it, that pugs are much, much worse than people who play together regularly, regardless of their rank.

broodijzer · Oct 04, 2006, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

If you thought of something new, 19 out of 20 times it's not going to work

I hate this lazy mentality of the pvp'ers. "Let the other groups test something, we'll farm it once it works". bah, be creative! If every group thought like this, there wouldn't even be iway, ranger spike, or almost every popular build.

Sirius Vino · Oct 04, 2006, 01:12 PM // 13:12

is this the end of iway / vim is that why there sour.. if so good maby foc spiek will make a come back

gene terrodon · Oct 04, 2006, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

~There is about 0 imagination in build design concerning HA. If someone joins a group wanting to try out a new skill not part of the cookie cutter builds that player is usually trashed and kicked from the team for being a noob.

I agree with this assessment. I got into a smite group using a KD warrior build and I got flamed to pieces. It was "eviscerate & shock you noob" and stuff like that. I'm not as fragile as some others, but it really annoyed me.
For the most part, in HA you have to play some old worn out and boring build or henchway.

I started playing GW in March. I PvE mostly, not because I was not interested in PvP, but because I wanted to learn the game and figure out what skills synergize. After four months and many hours, I decided I was ready for low level PvP, RA, AB, competitive missions. I played there to get a grasp of how actual players would react to the skills I was using and so on, as well to test build ideas.

Finally, I decided I was ready to take on HA and boy was I disappointed
The community was real bad as far as rank discrimination...rank 3+, rank 6+ and so on. To get a group, you have to use one of the FoTM builds (boring)
I have quickly realized rank is overrated (rank farmers).

I have played with R3+ who took 1:30 to kill Zaisen.
I have played in a group of unranked who killed them in <0:30.

I have nearly stopped playing (time logged in is about 2hrs a week, from around 15-20) because I am tired of PvE and HA (the only PvP that I see an obtainable goal) is not fun to play at all.

Orbberius · Oct 04, 2006, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by broodijzer

I hate this lazy mentality of the pvp'ers. "Let the other groups test something, we'll farm it once it works". bah, be creative! If every group thought like this, there wouldn't even be iway, ranger spike, or almost every popular build.

Well, when you're in a PuG, being creative is the last thing you want to do. Chances are, you'll have people in your group who think Power Attack is the best skill ever and everyone has different, 90% inneffectual ideas, everyone thinks they're the boss of the group and everybody wastes their time.

When you're with a bunch of guys you know and have played with, that's the time for testing.

It's not much different in PvE, except PvE is not competition so you can afford to be more flexible.

Senator Tom · Oct 04, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light

HA is indeed not as good as it was when I got my sigil.

TIMELINE

The Golden Age

Introduction of IWAY
*snippity doo dah*

Forgot Spirit Spam, Dual Smite, Air Spike, Ranger Spike, but I dont know if this timeline was only concerning IWAY

Quote:

Originally Posted by gene terrodon

I have played with R3+ who took 1:30 to kill Zaisen.
I have played in a group of unranked who killed them in <0:30.

So? I've taken halls with a group that took over 1min to kill the Zaishen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venom4112

Also, a noob =/= unranked person. I only have 35 fame, but im not a noob, and I dont run in and aggro. Infact, ive find alot of R3/6+ Groups giving me a chance, mostly in international districts.

Quite a lot of groups r3/6? Then why don't you have more than 35 fame?

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Oct 04, 2006, 02:12 PM // 14:12

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newbie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noob

Quote:

Newb vs. noob
Newb and noob may have somewhat different connotations. Newbs are simply newcomers—noob and n00b, on the other hand, generally mean someone who is obnoxious, annoying, or breaks the rules or cannot play effectively; whether they are actual newcomers or not is mostly irrelevant.

......

However, due to the evolution of language, the term noob or 'n00b' is now used both ways and newb is used only infrequently.

Azadaleou · Oct 04, 2006, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

Unranked players ARE noobs 90% of the time. They might be the good guys, but they have no concept of strategy, don't know the popular builds and don't kite warriors who are smashing their faces. Forgive me if I don't want to deal with that.

I have 0 rank and I'm not close to being a noob. I spend my time in RA and TA. I've tried to pvp in HA, but its so ridiculously hard to get in a group that I stop trying. Everyone wants to see your rank, but that has little to do with my pvp capabilities. What needs to be done(as pointed out by others) the rank system needs to be more individualized. Because right now it bunches so many players in to a few different categories without reflecting the player themself. There could be 100 R8 players, so I guess by them all being R8 that they play just a like?

A ranking system needs to be implemented thats indivdualized not generalized.

Blackhawk · Oct 04, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azadaleou

A ranking system needs to be implemented thats indivdualized not generalized.

I'm assuming that you mean making it character based rather than account based, as just because they're ranked using one specific build which I suspect is the case with the majority of ranked players, doesnt mean they're automatically going to be as good if they start a complete new class but will still use it as a way to blag their way into a team.

Clone · Oct 04, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

I pretty much gave up on PvP because of the unending waves of elitest pricks running around. I'm comming from a background in more FPS games. And I must say, I've seen behavior from people on GW worse than the infamous Counter-Strike community.

Ole Man Bourbon · Oct 04, 2006, 03:35 PM // 15:35

It's definitely going to be FASTER to get groups in HA now, which has been my biggest concern there. It just wasn't worth it to stand there and haggle for an hour with jackasses with the "god forbid we lose the first match" mentality.

sindex · Oct 04, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

The clear definition of Noob and Newb should also include- this meaningless and degrading urban internet acronym was summed up by those four year olds; who thought Nha-Nha-Nha and PooP were pretty interesting words.

Anyways I see your point it does get rather repetitive with most of these people who do call themselves pro’s at Hero’s Ascent, snubbing anyone else. However that’s what technically happens in any game, it’s the psychological obsession of winning and completely forgetting about the “fun factor” (it’s a frequent happening in sports as well). The best way to deal with this problem is find the other people who remember it’s just a game, and if the other team starts mocking you, remember you can always turn off local chat. Personally I have been to Hero’s Ascent only a few times since getting GW about four months after the release; but your right it has changed (it always does when people learn the learning curve). All I know is that certain experiences, have taught me that GW is always changing (re-writing the rules); so there is always a chance to become the better GW player by means of adaptation.

Alleji · Oct 04, 2006, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azadaleou

I have 0 rank and I'm not close to being a noob. I spend my time in RA and TA.

RA requires a completely different set of skills. I don't play it very much, but the basic idea of RA is to play a more-or-less self-sufficient build and assume that your three teammates are complete idiots (i.e. not rely on their cooperation and not expect assistance from them). I recognize that it takes skill to play in RA, but that still won't help you much in HoH, which is a completely different ball game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by broodijzer

I hate this lazy mentality of the pvp'ers. "Let the other groups test something, we'll farm it once it works". bah, be creative! If every group thought like this, there wouldn't even be iway, ranger spike, or almost every popular build.

Oh, I tested out my share of stuff and collectively, my guild tested out our share of stuff. Most of it sucked, but some changes turned out to work. What I was saying is that pugs aren't open to modded bars because most of the time they don't work and its a pug's right to refuse. The group is there to play halls for a couple of hours, not to work on improving the build - that is left to guilds.

gene terrodon · Oct 04, 2006, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Tom

So? I've taken halls with a group that took over 1min to kill the Zaishen.

I put that in to make a point....the lower ranked team was more effective at clearing the Zaishen than the higher ranked, bolstering my point that rank is overrated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by senator tom

Quite a lot of groups r3/6? Then why don't you have more than 35 fame?

Good for you winning halls...but yours seems to be the attitude in HA that this thread was centered around.

lennymon · Oct 04, 2006, 06:15 PM // 18:15

iway/vimway ARE the avenues which allow new people to get into HA, and always have been. The fotm groups arent all looking for r6+, anyone can find a vimway group today, earn some fame and perhaps meet a few friends, 6v6 instead of 8v8 is near meaningless change in light of all the new profession combinations, I'd still bet theres going to be a new arena coming 'soon' though.

Sluggs · Oct 04, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Just like in PvE your drops get nerfed if you farm too much an area, you shouldn't receive any points if you enter too many PvP games with the same build.
Lameway problem solved.

Navaros · Oct 04, 2006, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by gene terrodon

I put that in to make a point....the lower ranked team was more effective at clearing the Zaishen than the higher ranked, bolstering my point that rank is overrated.

So then why does yourself and others complain about "I can't get into high ranked parties because I'm low ranked". If lower ranked parties are so great why not just join them every time and be happy with that since they are so great?

This is where the "argument" of "Rank elitism is unfair to newbies, nerf rank!" always crumbles to dust.

If low ranked players did not want to unjustly leech off of the skills/abilities of much better (high ranked) players than themselves rather than play with people of their own skill level, then they'd have no basis to say "I can't get a team due to rank elitism!", because there are players o'plenty of their own low rank who could always play with them.

pigdestroyer · Oct 04, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

because youre an unranked noob and I dont want you on my team

Ferrous Capuchin · Oct 04, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thallandor

For the reason stated by the OP, is mainly and for some the sole reason why pure PvErs exist in this game.

Yep. I love PvP in general, be it BF1942, Eve, Team Fortress, etc. But the GW Heroes Ascent structure is terrible, I've tried a couple of times, and won't go back, I simply don't enjoy the chest-thumping elitist attitudes and cliques, combined with the pre-teen chat room fascination with profanity mentality. Far too many obnoxious idiots with character names of "Jiggly Boobz Nuker".

I'm straight PvE for Guild Wars.

gene terrodon · Oct 04, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

So then why does yourself and others complain about "I can't get into high ranked parties because I'm low ranked". If lower ranked parties are so great why not just join them every time and be happy with that since they are so great?

This is where the "argument" of "Rank elitism is unfair to newbies, nerf rank!" always crumbles to dust.

If low ranked players did not want to unjustly leech off of the skills/abilities of much better (high ranked) players than themselves rather than play with people of their own skill level, then they'd have no basis to say "I can't get a team due to rank elitism!", because there are players o'plenty of their own low rank who could always play with them.

I don't leech and am intelligent enough to be able to adapt my play to benefit any team I am on.
Me, personally, have no issues getting and sticking with groups.
But shunning someone just because there rank isn't high enough is bad practice, regardless of what anyone thinks.
That rank 1,2 or 3 could be on a second account or just started playing HA after spending hours upon hours honing their skills in other parts of the game.
Now don't get me wrong, inviting a mending wammo in a dual smite group is pretty useless, regardless of the rank. On the otherhand, shunning a Thumper, VIM, B-Spiker (or whatever the FoTM is), who has all the right skills and has a good idea of how to use them, just because they are rank 1 or 2 is, IMO, couterproductive.
Time in, especially the rank farmers, means nothing in GW.
Furthermore, not being able to get into higher ranked groups is not the problem.
It's the people that flame, unneccessarily, at perceived "noobs" that is the problem.

People seem to forget, they started at the bottom too.

But Navarro, I want to thank you for being another, in a growing list of people, that illustrates why this thread was started.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigdestroyer

because youre an unranked noob and I dont want you on my team

Try contributing something...not a very hard concept.